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Integrated solutions, WAS Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
by Jon Pruente 10 Aug '08

10 Aug '08

On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:51 PM, Jeffrey Watts <jeffrey.w.watts(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I felt the same as you did about integrated peripherals, but as prices have > plummeted I actually prefer them now. I'd rather have an integrated > motherboard that costs $100 than a motherboard, SATA card, sound card, > graphics card, networking card that are all separate and cost $300 total. > If a component breaks I don't mind shelling out $100 to replace the whole > thing, and the lack of all of the connectors and sockets and impaired > airflow is a huge plus for me. Given the (now) long history of integrated peripherals on mobos, we can safely say that they fail at not-unreasonable rates, and nearly all do allow individual components to be shut off. Specifically buying a non-integrated mobo is a tough task these days. Really, about the only thing I don't want integrated is video, and that's only on my main workstation so I can have fast 3D. Size and noise are things I like in small quantities and integrated products allow me to have that. I run a Mac mini as my main OS X system, and I'm planning on picking up an Eee box sometime if I want a more modern PC system. It's impossible to get a small system when you are dealing with all sorts of add-on cards to get basic functionality. Of course, in systems this small it's hard or impossible to replace a failed integrated component with an expansion card, but overall the failure rate is so low I don't really care. Jon.

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Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
by Oren Beck 07 Aug '08

07 Aug '08

There seems to me an ethics issue developing . One possibly directed at establishing the "pattern of crime" RE: EOL software/hardware support. I can see a company ethically having legit EOL policy protecting them from liability. Example in my past was devices having consumable safety parts with "expiry risk" factors. If a seal fails causing ammonia leakage it's potentially deadly. That was on Micrographics gear arguably a "Printing" support device. SO the software running on a pc/xt simply disabled the hardware- absent codes from the company. Precedent thus set for EOL "disablement" in safety interlock software. That shows what a valid EOL disablement scenario is and was all about. The effective disablement of printers attached to unsupported software is NOT the comparable situation at all. Yes, allegedly if you kept your own software archives, it would be a non issue. The looming crash comes with XP style "activation" of nonfree software and DRM locked information. Here the will they ? Vs what "Already has" discussion begins. I see the golden window for Free and Open Source software to declare an ethical high road.

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Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
by Leo Mauler 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

Your opinion is noted but it is not correct. Book burning is done to remove from society things which a large organization no longer wants the public to have access, things which are merely (or mostly) harmful to the large organization and not to society at large. Religious organizations and governments have been the chief culprits, but non-governmental organizations not run by any specific religion have also used the tactic. For example, in the early part of the 20th Century Anthony Comstock's New York Society for the Suppression of Vice inscribed book-burning on its seal, as a worthy goal to be achieved. Windows 98 printer drivers are inconvenient to HP, because Microsoft has yanked all the licenses for all printer driver components provided by Microsoft. Strictly speaking the Windows 98 printer drivers themselves are currently illegal to own and operate because the only way to use them is to use them without permission (licensing) from Microsoft. This is a problem for anyone who uses the printer drivers, but HP will still have the biggest financial and legal headache from their existence. In Orwell's 1984, the euphemistically-called "memory hole" is used to burn any book or written text which is inconvenient to the regime. Hence the reference to "book burning" when referring to HP's choice to "burn" all its Windows 98 printer drivers. -- <someoneelse@nobody,org> wrote: > It is in no way, even remotely similar, to book burning. > > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 16:02, Leo Mauler > <webgiant(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > I'm still a little annoyed with HP for deleting > > the drivers and commanding everyone not to give > > them away. Smacks of book burning.

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Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
by Leo Mauler 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Billy Crook <billycrook(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 15:40, Leo Mauler > <webgiant(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Chris, I don't think you get what I'm saying. > > There's a difference between what you are saying, > > maintenance, and what I was saying, which is > > "don't deny access to existing already-created > > drivers." > > YOU DO NOT GET TO TELL HP HOW TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS. > PERIOD. GET OVER YOUR SELF. HP DOES NOT AND IS NOT > OBLIGATED TO CARE ABOUT YOU. So when you pay money to an organization for a service, they aren't obligated to provide that service to you? Sounds vaguely communistic. > > ..blah...blah... > > What HP is doing isn't refusing to maintain their > > printers, it is actively choosing not to provide, > > even on an "as-is, don't expect support" fashion, > > *existing* drivers. > > What makes you think they were ever obligated to provide > them in the first place? Because I paid them money for their product? Again, this attitude of yours that people should be allowed to steal money from other people and provide them with nothing in return sounds vaguely communist. > > Drivers which require no work to create, because they > > were already here. Drivers which require no work to > > distribute, because they were already available on the > > HP website. > > They cost money in bandwidth, server upkeep, and feilding > support calls from idiots running Windows 95 who don't > know what postscript is, and call HP to fix their printer > or ask for a new one. The first two are valid points, but you need to look up all the big words in the phrase "an 'as-is, don't expect support' fashion" which confuse you into thinking that I'm saying HP should provide technical support for the existing drivers. > > They've just (metaphorically speaking) tracked > > down and *destroyed* every CD and floppy > > collection of Slackware 7.1 (current as of 1998). > > They have in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY, NOT EVEN > METAPHORICALLY tracked down and destroyed a damn > thing. Put your pants back on. So when they were deleting all the copies of their Windows 98 drivers, they weren't deleting all the copies of their Windows 98 drivers? How Zen! > > I have a very old Pentium I laptop still running that > > same "10-year-old OS", namely Slackware 7.1. The > > laptop won't run anything better as it only has a > > floppy drive and no CD drive (not even a USB port). > > What the laptop does do is manage all my recipes in > > my kitchen, and allows me to write essays or thoughts, > > or play simple games, while the bread is rising or the > > water is getting ready to boil. An old wired Ethernet > > card does a nice job of connecting me to the basement > > server and very basic Internet connectivity. Fact is > > that I wouldn't want to risk a $1000+ laptop right > > next to the stove, and don't have the space for a bulky > > tower case and monitor. > > Throw it away. It is garbage. Buy a PDA you tool. A $300 PDA next to a stove all the time? I'm not made of money, though if part of your financial income comes from "people giving you money and getting nothing in return" that you think is just fine in the marketplace, you must have a dozen throwaway PDAs lying around. > > Sometimes older is a *better choice* than newer. > > There's an old saying that people will believe anything > when their sense of self worth depends on it. Exactly, I couldn't agree more about your own attitudes. > Take a step back, and think what you reveal about yourself, > before saying anything more. Let's see. I've revealed that I don't put useful technology in a landfill just because its not the "latest and greatest." Methinks you should have taken your own advice before making this message.

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Re: New UPDATE: Built-in sound *not* working well (was UPDATE: Built-in sound now working fine)
by Ty Unes 05 Aug '08

05 Aug '08

Damn Thunderbird... Checking this time. Billy Crook wrote: > Sending attachments to a mailing list?! Good lord sir. I beg thee > consideration. > > On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 14:28, Ty Unes <riverty(a)kc.rr.com> wrote: > >> Have you checked the input/output levels using your mixer of choice? Could >> be pre-amp overload causing the static sound. Just a thought. >> >> Leo Mauler wrote: >> >> Sorry, I spoke too soon on this one. While the microphone plays through to >> the speakers just fine, when audio or video files are played there is >> nothing but static, though it is bursts of static indicating something is >> trying to render the digital media into analog sound. The microphone also >> stays on all the time and has to be manually switched off. >> >> We've tried different players (the built-in media player, VLC, the music >> player) and different sound formats (wav, mp3, ogg, avi (XviD/MP3 and >> XviD/Ogg), mpeg1, etc.) and none of them produce anything other than bursts >> of static. >> >> --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Leo Mauler <webgiant(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> Well I guess a litle bit of information goes a long way. I >> had been thinking that the laptop had some weird very >> proprietary ESS Audiodrive chipset, ESS0006, which is what >> popped up in the Ubuntu Device Manager. >> >> Recently I discovered that his laptop actually uses the >> ESS1869 chipset, which is supported by the snd-es18xx >> module. Turns out one line ("snd-es18xx") added >> to /etc/modules made his sound work in Ubuntu Linux. Funny >> thing was that he didn't know he had a built-in >> microphone on his laptop until Ubuntu rebooted and the >> speakers started echoing everything we said... >> >> Turns out that Ubuntu likes to disable some systems' >> sound by default, though I've never found the criteria >> they use to determine which systems shouldn't have sound >> and which get get sound. This link describes the problem >> and how to fix it, if any of you run into someone having the >> same problem and can't fix it personally. >> >> Linux - Installing Ubuntu - Enabling your sound card... >> http://www.aotk50.dsl.pipex.com/install-ubuntu-sb16/install-ubuntu-sb16.htm >> >> TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/2kp9so >> >> Anyway, now that his sound works I think I've hooked >> another Linux convert. WINE already ran the few bits of >> Windows software he has to run. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Kclug mailing list >> Kclug(a)kclug.org >> http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Ty Unes - Point b Computer Services LLC. >> Overland Park, Kansas - 913.626.9815 >> email: riverty(a)gmail.com >> www: 2xl.homelinux.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Kclug mailing list >> Kclug(a)kclug.org >> http://kclug.org/mailman/listinfo/kclug >> >> >> > >

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Linux-compatible Laptop add-on sound cards?
by Leo Mauler 04 Aug '08

04 Aug '08

For the last few years I've been seeing these add-on sound cards for laptops which promise better sound than the standard laptop sound chipsets. And on the same lines as my recent thread on printers, I know of at least one person who still uses Windows98 on his ancient laptop (PII) because Linux doesn't have drivers for the sound hardware on his laptop. I've popped out his hard drive, dropped in another one, and installed Ubuntu 8.04, and while he's impressed, the "no sound" problem is an upgrade-killer. Does anyone know if there is an add-on sound system for laptops, for which there are Linux drivers? While a laptop upgrade may sound better, even the used laptops with PIII CPUs are over $400, while the add-on sound cards generally are under $50, making the Linux switch "with sound" much more attractive with just the add-on sound to an existing perfectly functional laptop. Even the folks who have Linux-supported sound on their laptops would benefit from these cards (if Linux drivers exist for them), which generally have features on them not found on most laptops, such as surround-sound features.

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Going the extra mile (UPDATE: Built-in sound now working fine)
by Justin Dugger 03 Aug '08

03 Aug '08

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Leo Mauler <webgiant(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Jon Pruente <jdpruente(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:18 PM, Jeffrey Watts >> <jeffrey.w.watts(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > What's the chipset? You might want to dig a bit >> > deeper, it's very possible that the chipset is >> > supported, but that auto-detection fails. Back >> > then a lot of those chipsets were very non-standard >> > and you had to manually enter in IRQs and so forth. >> >> I've had a few older systems that defaulted to muted >> sound, or defaulted to sending the output to some >> crazy non-exsistant output that didn't exist on the >> card. They generally just required a quick flip of >> bits somewhere to get on track. Of course checking >> dmesg output and alsaconf, etc. will tell you more >> of what is going on. > > Well I guess a litle bit of information goes a long way. I had been thinking that the laptop had some weird very proprietary ESS Audiodrive chipset, ESS0006, which is what popped up in the Ubuntu Device Manager. > > Recently I discovered that his laptop actually uses the ESS1869 chipset, which is supported by the snd-es18xx module. Turns out one line ("snd-es18xx") added to /etc/modules made his sound work in Ubuntu Linux. Funny thing was that he didn't know he had a built-in microphone on his laptop until Ubuntu rebooted and the speakers started echoing everything we said... > > Turns out that Ubuntu likes to disable some systems' sound by default, though I've never found the criteria they use to determine which systems shouldn't have sound and which get get sound. This link describes the problem and how to fix it, if any of you run into someone having the same problem and can't fix it personally. > > Linux - Installing Ubuntu - Enabling your sound card... > > http://www.aotk50.dsl.pipex.com/install-ubuntu-sb16/install-ubuntu-sb16.htm > > TinyURL: http://tinyurl.com/2kp9so > > Anyway, now that his sound works I think I've hooked another Linux convert. WINE already ran the few bits of Windows software he has to run. Thank you for the update; I'm glad to know Ubuntu works for you now. Ubuntu is a community driven distribution. Canonical might put gas in the tank, but the wheels and engine are people like you, me and your friend. I encourage you or your friend to file a bug in Launchpad about this so it can be tracked and fixed for everybody. If you need help, just come into #ubuntu-bugs on Freenode and we'll sort you out. Justin Dugger Ubuntu Member

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Re: win95/98/ME and printers. An ethics issue comparable to DRM servers or not?
by David Nicol 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 3:43 PM, Luke -Jr <luke(a)dashjr.org> wrote: > On Thursday 31 July 2008, David Nicol wrote: >> configured as networked printer driver > > Windows 98 (and newer AFAIK) requires printer-specific drivers even to print > to a network printer. Good luck with that idea. Right, but you can configure the clients for the network printer to print to "generic postscript printer" which is a driver that comes with it. -- Drilling is a cheap gimmick that won't lower gas prices but will make the oil companies even richer.

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gmail fetching comcast
by bewkard 31 Jul '08

31 Jul '08

does anyone have any experience with using gmail to fetch email from comcast's POP servers? I'm getting ready to do this for a friend, and he doesn't have access to the comcast account until next week. I wondered if anyone has done this and if there are any peculiarities that I should know about Thanks Tim

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Re: Simple VPN?
by Sean Crago 29 Jul '08

29 Jul '08

Actually, I really don't care that much evading detection. Is there a simple way with DropBear's minimal SSH implementation to just establish an SSH tunnel from my router in Kathmandu to a box in KC and route only :80 and :443 over it? -Sean

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